In this episode we welcome careers expert Holly O'Rourke and Staffordshire University alumni and part-time lecturer, Maxie, to chat about graduate destinations and careers.
In this episode we welcome careers expert Holly O'Rourke and Staffordshire University alumni and part-time lecturer, Maxie, to chat about graduate destinations and careers.
Welcome to the Student Connect podcast, a podcast to share experiences of university that helped to shape us. This podcast is created in association with Staffordshire University and hosted by a student comms ambassador team. It's a student led podcast which shares the experiences of students progressing through university education and inviting experts from a variety of life topics. Along the way, we will endeavor to share our honest stories. Sometimes too honest to help to educate and support those who may be going through similar experiences. We are host. Alex. And Nesta. So we are coming into episode five and we are talking about graduation, which is a big topic for you and I. So how are you feeling? It's it's creeping up on you. And, you know, I thought I feel a lot better after I submitted everything. But I don't feel worse. I feel worse. Feel like the amount of stuff that I have to do is like piling up. And because there's no deadline for it, I'm like, do I start. Right? So you just sort of aimless. Yeah, I'm just floating currently. Just floating a few things in the pipeline to move house and stuff, but I'm not too sure where it all actually fits in. So all the stress and the pressure is like off. But then now the choices and the options have opened up and it's like considerations. Yeah, definitely a lot to think about and that's why we have invited some guests to help us all think about what we're doing after uni. So we have Nesta about to graduate along with the rest of the class of 22, so congratulations. Good luck to everyone graduating either here at Starbucks or somewhere else as well. This episode will look into the big question of what next? When's your graduation? I graduate. And in the autumn. Autumn graduation. Okay. Okay. And in the fall for. Us. In the States. Okay. Yeah. So I feel like this question is hovering around for me as well, because that's the big especially I think being an international student, everyone's like, so what's your plan? Yeah. Okay. I don't know. So you get married to get married? I mean, that's one option. But yeah, it is. It is important and it concludes that chapter of your life. So we are very excited to welcome our guests for this episode. So if you introduce yourselves. So, hi, I'm Maxy. I am a previous student from Staffs, a graduate, and I now currently teach on the E-sports Bay here. Hi, my name is Holly and I'm actually also a previous student at Stanford University, but I'm now a graduate employability consultant here. Very nice. Very nice. Thank you guys so much for coming on the podcast to talk a bit about that big scary what seems like an abyss at the end. Of your. Time here. But MAXINE, can you tell us a bit about your experience, uh, graduating? Kind of. What? Did you have plans in place before? Did everything kind of come after? So I've technically graduated three times, and all three of those times I haven't had a plan in place until a couple of months before my degree. When I finished my degree, I was fairly certain I wanted to continue into postgraduate study, but it was quite late into the year that I settled on what I wanted to do finishing my master's. I literally didn't decide what I planned to do until the summer, and then I just luckily found myself a great role here at stuff. When I finished my pgce, so it was all very reactive to what was going on in my life at the time, which I never would have anticipated when I started uni, when I started uni, I thought that I would have a strict plan of what I wanted to do way before. And then I found that, you know, life, particularly when you are at uni, you find that your life sort of goes a different way to what you expect and sort of, yeah, you have to be quite reactive to it. And I think that, you know, sometimes life has plans for you that you don't expect. And like COVID. Oh, like I'm. Going to play. Oh, great. How about you? So in terms of how I got to where I am. Yeah, yeah. What are you sort of thinking to graduation? It's very, very similar sort of thing. So I actually studied forensic investigation, okay. Undergraduate and then went on to do a master's in that. And for quite some time I thought that that was what I wanted to do was actually took become in a career coach who starts do it while doing my master's. And I realized that actually I really like careers. So. That's how my passion started. Oh, cool. So that's quite it's quite a step up. A step away. I think this is the the forensic side of it. I am just looking at some of the the different evidence photos and it's just it doesn't sound like something anybody should be doing is it's hard to stop it, but you see it because that's like actual people. Yeah. Go to where. It's really quite intense stuff. Sometimes. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. So I suppose you're on the other side of it where it's like helping people to get their life started versus photographing them after it's ended. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The helping people thing was. Was. What I really like. Okay? That's what I took from it. And that's why I am where I am now. I'm not also face. And so how did you find yourself in a sports movie? So I actually started my uni experience wanting to be a comic book artist and I really enjoyed that first of all. But it was about the stage in my life where I was trying different things. It also feels like every year I had a different career intention and about halfway through my degree here, I fell absolutely in love with marketing and digital marketing in a large part due to my job as a student. Comms ambassador, which obviously you guys are up to, you know, and my lecturers were very supportive in letting me sort of progress with digital marketing and graphic design within my comic arts degree. And I just happened to be also falling in love with e-sports alongside. And I realized that digital marketing within e-sports was a really interesting topic and a very new thing to do. So it was coming to the end of my degree and I noticed there was this e-sports masters that had opened up and so I sort of sort of headfirst into it and went with it and sort of pursued digital marketing and community management within e-sports from there. And yeah, that's how I ended up. That's absolutely awesome. I discussed how the great I love the marketing side of almost everything. To me, I think it's really interesting just to see the different ways that you can actually position yourself among people who are or would likely be engaged with what it is that you're doing. I think it's important. Yeah, really? Well, I mean, it shapes sort of how we see the world and how we react to everyone. It's from me doing the ceramics, you know, I was like sort of an independent artist for most of my life. It's like you have to market yourself and that can be like, really? You're just like, I don't know. I feel like I'm not really like I love to talk to people and like to talk about, you know, life experience, but it's different to be like to talk about yourself. You don't want to feel present. So sell yourself in a way, you know, where it's like, well, and especially artists you're never happy with your work, really. Like you're always like, well, it's just this is just the first draft. Like, don't, don't look at this part. Yeah, like you see all the flaws and everyone else come at it. So you really have to sort of put yourself in a different mindset to like sell yourself. And I feel like that's a lot of kind of what you have to do just in general. Yeah. Like out in the world after graduation, for any job you're in, you do have to sell yourself at the end of the day. And on that note, totally how do you think that people should sort of best prepare themselves for that them next steps and to sort of get themselves into that market and enjoy like sort of a prosperous life after you. Yeah. So it's a really, really good question actually. And you know, as Alex has just mentioned, it can be really quite, quite tough and quite daunting. You know, going into that job market, it's it's a whole new thing. You know, you've you've been working really hard and, you know, getting to where you are studying and then all of a sudden you're like, oh, you know, well, what next? Where do I go? But in terms of preparing themselves and one thing I'd definitely say is, you know, considering your network and am 100%, you need to get yourself on LinkedIn if you're not already guys sales on that it's you know oh come in there's so many opportunities on that and you know it's a great way to actually find out what other people are doing and how they've gotten into the positions that they've gone to. And while you still at university, tap into the expert knowledge as well around you and really take advantage of that as well. Obviously, you know, you can pop in splits, hair and body within careers. We're happy to help. And when it comes to sort of nervousness on, you know, how do I do this or, you know, could I practice this, we can help you practice. And, you know, the fact that pinch before you go out into the real world and then can I go over that? Yeah, I think practice well, practice makes perfect in many ways, but I think there's been quite a few sort of job interviews where you they ask a question that you're totally unprepared for and you have to sort of your brain just does that. Like, you know, you're like and you have to like kind of come up with things on the on the fly. So it is good to have that practice of, you know, having the questions. And, you know, when you feel more prepared than you can, you do you do better, you feel less nervous. Then repetition is the motor of skill. And yeah, I do think that that a lot of the times it's like the art of understanding and interpreting the question. And that in itself is quite complex thing. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. You've had the nail on the head there actually. And you know, we can teach it to, to develop those skills on, you know, what is it that fanboys looking for? What is it that, you know, you can do that can really impress them and, you know, make you shine compared to what the people who are into the same job. I think it's also really important to remember as well that, you know, other people are in the same position as you and you could be going into an interview and thinking, oh, my gosh, you know, I'm this is this interview I've done or, you know, this could be one few that you've done. I mean, experienced. I haven't got their spot. Chances are most people are also feeling exactly the same way. And I think that's quite reassuring actually, to think that when going into an interview, you know, that they just as nervous. So actually you're all on the same playing field. See, those could be a really good way to look at it because it's always viewed in the lens like competition and oh yeah, who's doing the best and that. But if you picture it that you're all started basis that's similar I suppose the call me you can keep yourself the better you deliver them that sort of result stay looking for. Top story. Then I think to like you you can kind of take information because like I know when I was looking for jobs and trying to apply and I would always get so put off by like the job description and I tell myself, Oh, I don't have that that's going on that skill. But like you can really sort of like make skills that you were Yeah. In a job that maybe isn't in the same field but you know, like, like people skills like communication and things like that translate it to so many different jobs. And so just because you did it in a nursing job doesn't mean you can't do it in a like graphic design job, you know? So it's really in two difference, you know, because I worked for a long time in the like activities in like a nursing home like and so I was really nervous going back out into the world trying to find a creative job, like trying to find a job in my art background. And like I was really nervous that like nothing I had like all of my skills were in the wrong place and like all of my experience was in the wrong place. And while, and then cause it happened so. Fast. And then I just didn't do anything. And then and now I'm here. So it's kind of like, you know, but, but it was a genuine fear of mine. And I, I always was kind of like, Oh, I don't think I'm qualified for that job. And I wouldn't apply. But then, you know, you hear about people getting jobs that they're totally unqualified, but like because they were able to sell themselves and like, you know, and it's not even like qualification. They're sort of like, you know, their guidelines and I think it's too well it is to discourage people from applying. Yeah, yeah. Maybe don't have that but you can really sort of twist not I won't say when you. Like framing them in a specific context. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we call that transferable skills. They can. You know. That's definitely a point that I was going to make. And I think it's really important that people do remember that. And like you said, it's almost like a baseline of just making sure that somebody fit their professional criteria and that they are they actually have the ability to do that job. So, you know, there are that there is that skill set that, you know, is down on the job description. But use that to your advantage. It's it's like a recipe book. I go with your job description and you can actually use that to work out what it is exactly that that employee is looking for. And then if you reflect on that and look at the skills that you've done taken out of context from the actual job that it is, you'll realize that you've got a lot more skills aligned to what they're looking for, who? Yeah, because it's like a, it's like an open playing field more than it is like a funnel. And I do always think that like people tend to specialize throughout university. But we had a masterclass yesterday from like the global creative director at like some branding company, and he was saying, Oh, they like T-shaped people. They like people that aren't just specialized in one thing, but they have other different backgrounds and skills which can help bring variety into the role that and then that. They're not just looking at what skills you've got, but who you are as a person as well, and that you'll actually have good chemistry with the team because it doesn't really matter how good you are. If you then results can then, you know, be synergise with the other team members and actually produce something of value. Yeah, 100%. And I think it's really important as well that you know what you said about fitting in with the team. One thing I interview that's really key that they're looking for, if you've got an interview, you kind of, you know, you're more or less 80%. They're not 20%. Are they going to fit with the company? So they're looking at your personality, how your fit, what your values are, how they align with their values. So actually that's really, really important to think about when going into the role. And also I think it's an important enough time to think about whether, you know, is the company good for you? It is their values align with your values. I think it's always better to turn away at work than to accept work. That is not quite how you're feeling because then you just sort of build upon your CV, just like a one month year, two months that you realistically you want something that's like long term, that you can maintain that relationship posture of moving through to different employment. But Maxi AM Yes, thinking about employment like this, I was wondering where you sort of in your career and and what do you think your next steps of development might be? All right. So I currently working part time as an e-sports lecturer, as I mentioned, whilst also maintaining my presence as a content creator, specifically in the world of cosplay and sort of geek culture. So as I move forward, I'm planning to come back into education at some point to do a PhD just to sort of further sort of my potential as a lecturer. But since I was sort of in my master's, I fell in love with teaching and stuff and being a lecturer. It became what I would absolutely love to do and I feel incredibly lucky to already be there. So I think long term I would love to to stay here and continue lecturing at stops, but maybe do a Ph.D. alongside and sort of see what we can go from that. But again, same as I said before, I think when it comes to careers, it's so reactive that you never really know. So I could say that now and five years down the line, who knows what would be going on? But yeah, it's very, very exciting. Yeah, no, that sounds absolutely awesome. That is. And one of his sort of started uni, I looked at lecturers with like all this authority. I was like, Oh, they got mine. And then since then I've realized how much work and stress they're under and little bit. Yeah. I was like, Ooh, ooh. It seems a bit touch and go. But I think if you can maintain and you can develop through that, I think you obviously cultivate a lot of really important skills that are transferable. Incredibly rewarding job as well. And at staffs in particular, we have such a good student body and it's it's very, very enjoyable and we've got a very good bunch of students. So I really enjoy teaching. I don't know too much about e-sports, right? I don't know too much. I know that it's not necessarily the actual game inside of it, but it's like the events and you know, as it's sort of how to monetize things rather than just so consumer. The e-sports course is incredibly diverse, what we teach on it. So a lot of people, when I say I teach e-sports and I mentioned that I teach competitive gaming, one of the first things they said to me is it's like, Oh, so you must be really, really good at playing. And I'm like, Actually, I'm pretty terrible. I am not great because obviously we're not doing that side of it. Predominantly, we cover things like broadcasting. So for you, for your event, you'll do like event management events, planning, you'll have how to broadcast it, how to set up the equipment so that you can, you know, make a good event and show that event off to the world. We talk about like policy and talk about how the world of sports is governed versus the world of e-sports and how we can take influence from sports while making our own rules. Because obviously e-sports is quite a new industry, so we're very aware of where we need to take governance and things like that. And then my side of things is doing things like marketing, doing content creation, social media management, and most importantly, community management, and talking about what is the e-sports community compared to the wider gaming community compared to the wider, you know, whole population. And talking about like where we would fit as potentially community managers or event creators and what we can do with that and how we can get to understand our community better, which is a lovely thing to teach and very exciting thing to teach me. Obviously when you're teaching something like communities, there's so many sort of gray areas, there's not a lot of black and white when you're talking about people and where people fit. And it's very exciting to be able to encourage people, especially in such a new industry, to be going out there and to be asking these questions and learning things about the community that they're part of. As I was surprised that they've actually got a degree in something that's like quite, quite pioneers, aren't you? Realistically, yeah, that's right. In the structure from the ground. Staff, it was the first e-sports degree. And yeah, we've, we've come a long way since it started. But you know, e-sports has been around and high levels of popularity for a good 20 years or so, but it's only getting more and more popular. So I'm very glad that Steph sort of hopped on to that train when they did because we're really in a good place for that. But now. Current Builder Yeah, it's like the first stage of the product lifecycle. So definitely. Priming like, hey Holly, I was wondering what are the top careers that graduates usually go into once to finish? So it's a really interesting question actually when you say top careers because it's natural actually shown that there are no real top careers. Oh, okay. Which is quite interesting because, you know, I'm sure people want to maybe answer to that. But actually, I think that kind of goes back to that whole you know, we've been discussing transferable skills and, you know, that whole and triangle theory that you mentioned earlier. And actually, you know, employers, again, are looking for skills that can be used broadly and widely. So people end up in places that they really didn't think they were going to build. And it's really, really common, especially it starts for students and graduates to, you know, and open in all manner of crazy places that you just wouldn't think. I mean, one one example is, you know, you could have a psychology student who ends up in marketing, for example. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. You wouldn't think of it, you know, off the top of the map. You wouldn't come in as a prospective student and think, I want to go into marketing, but I'm going to do a psychology degree. Yeah, yeah, yeah. By the end. You like, hang on a second. This is a really cool and you know, I'm really interested in math and a way you go. As we've said before, you never know where you end up in careers. Then I think there's a there's a certain expectation with a lot of careers that you're going to do go into this and then you're going to become this. And I think, you know, even just you talking about the e-sports, you know, and how broad that can be because broadcasting can be for so many different things. Yeah. So like you could have a career in something, you know, completely different. And I think in like especially in sort of the arts degree can be a bit like tricky as well because people get put into a box and they're like, Oh, you'll either be a starving artist or I got, you know, you know. I get. People or I got so many when I first went for my undergrad because I did my undergrad in art as well in ceramics and I got so many people go, Oh, you're going to be an art teacher then? And I was like, Even if I had maybe thought about it, there was no way I was going to be an art teacher after everyone was like, Oh, so you'll be an art teacher? I'm like, No, I'm not going to be an art teacher. Susan, thanks for that. I got the exact same thing on my art degree. It's literally it's like, okay, so are you going to try and make it or are you going to be a high school teacher? And I was just like always since the day the options when you get towards the end, you realize that actually those aren't the only options. But a lot of people from the outside looking in will have the perception that they are. Yeah. And it's I feel like there's that in so many degree. Well even you know you did your forensics degree and now you're in careers. And so it's it is like you are very reactive. So you kind of you have to just, you know, look, be on the lookout for those opportunity is and, you know, when they present themselves but it is very much in a lot of degrees where you're sort of, oh, so you're going to be this and it's like, well, but there's so many other things you can do. Like you have to really look, I mean, in the art and design world, every thing in this room has been designed. Yeah, yeah, both. Or, you know, so it's like, you know, it's you don't have to be in that box or you don't have to be stuck in what you think or what your parents think or what your neighbor Becky thing you're supposed to do. And so, you know, I think that's a good, good thing to kind of keep the horizons broad. I mean, with my degree, it's like engineering design. So I'm not quite engineer, I'm not quite an engineer like a pam, but then I'm also not quite product designer. So I'm like somewhere in the middle would like bits of skills from both sides. And so it sort of just leaves everything like an open sort of book. And I'm like a and the one thing that's bad about it, though, is that when I'm looking for different careers and then for a girl, whatever they like, we want someone with a beach life. It's an engineering role. It's like a Bachelor of Engineering degree then like I've got a Bachelor of Science degree, so I'm not quite there and I'm could I play it off? Could I still go in and do these things? But to be honest, it's just not something I'm really actually that sure about. And and so again, to keep broadening horizons, working in the marketing sector for this university and then also doing some advocate roles like mentoring and stuff. And I'm just trying to run myself off so that I'm not just something square. I've got different ideas and I can tackle different things for different times, you know. When I think it can be a bit stressful as well, looking at the different job titles and like and trying different because I know even looking at LinkedIn like trying to find a a, a title, especially trying to look for like creative or artist where, you know, I mean, so I'm tying it back into me again. But you know, it can be hard to be like, what's the job title? And so I was wondering how if you have any sort of tips on like kind of what to look for or like buzz words or maybe like, I don't know, just to help looking at the blank search bar, you're kind of like, what do I like? What do I do? Yeah. So, I mean, it's actually a really, really good question. And the answer is employee, she has all kinds of different names and titles and you know, to give themselves a little bit of pizzazz. Female And that can be the struggle when looking for that, that job. And I think it's it's a bit of a game. You know, you've got to try a few different, different buzzwords. And I think you marry within your own industry what those kind of buzzwords could be. But then it's also thinking outside the box and thinking, Oh, okay, well, let's just try this word and just see what, what comes up. Or I know that again, I wrote LinkedIn earlier, but LinkedIn's a great area of discussion where people are always talking about, you know, different positions and learn about different positions and what they are and who does what, where and how and why. And actually it's a great learning tool to actually work out what is that title and who does what, who even are you and what do you do? So I definitely recommend again networking yourself to, you know, different career size, speak to the professionals and get their opinions of, you know, what, what titles mean, what and do your research as well. You know, there's lots out there, but it just takes a bit of digging just to work out what it is that you need to find out. Definitely. That's a really good point. That is because, you know, it's time to apply for a certain job. And I got it. And I'm like, this is not what you know, till do. And I think it's really important and that's that's actually a really, really good, you know point sometimes and interview it's useful to use those questions to the end of the interview and ask them a little bit more. If you're unsure if you're like, Why am I actually going to be Dale? And obviously don't ask that. But you know, you can say what? What would a day in the life be like within my role? Or what's a day in the life like working at Insert Employment. Awesome. Okay. Yeah, I'll keep all this in mind and really like a little case in my head, you know? Look out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Masterclass on LinkedIn yesterday was really, really interesting. Spoke about how you can increase engagement to find so the skills that are specific to your industry, putting them on there, getting endorsements from other people that can say, Yeah, you have got this skill and then making sure that they they're also authoritative. And it's not just like you want. Something amazing because it's almost like pre reference and so you make something more attractive to, you know, who whoever's out there and actually you, you might get headhunted if you've got some great endorsements on your LinkedIn, you might not even be looking for a job, but they might get in touch with you if you've you've got that you know good trustworthy. Yeah. Endorsement I think that goes through like a network as well don't you. And you've got your connections and then people are like searching for the people and then you'll show up where you've been in a post or whatever and then slow. We're actually looking for someone that's like this, but you don't really get that exposure without first having the network and the connections. So yeah, it kind of works I guess. I mean, I don't quite know the algorithms and whatnot, but the more connections, the more people will see you. Just from the way that LinkedIn is built, is a networking site designed to say, Oh, did you know this person connected with such and such? Okay, so actually somebody is far more likely to find you just by chance if you have more connections. And I think just touching on that as well, don't be scared to connect with people. So many people feel so intimidated by LinkedIn and it's not as scary as as it comes across. You know, it's a great tool that you can use. You can meet new people if you feeling a bit nervous, just connect with people and just, you know, sit on the back burner and have a look and just see what's going on. You know, have to start, you know, messaging people and what not straightaway for if you feeling confident, then go for it. People are a lot more responsive than you think that they actually and far less scary. Yeah I had to run for my dissertation in from this past term. I had to find people like technicians from like local pottery. So I was talking about like sustainability and like recycling industrial waste within the factory. And so I had found a couple of people on LinkedIn that kind of fit a job description, but it was a bit intimidating because you're just like, this person has no idea who I am and I'm trying to think like I might send a message like, Hi. And that's, that's uni. I'm doing this, you know, so it's, it is a bit intimidating, but like the, the people that I got in touch with had been so helpful and like they're so willing to help me to help you. And, you know, that's like a connection that you have now. And so it's, you know, it is one of those things where people are are a lot nicer than you may be because, I mean, meeting new people is intimidating anyway. But then there's something about online where it's like you I don't know. I feel like it's like you've no idea who look like who they are. Yeah. Yeah. So you got that suspicion? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. Actually, you were saying that you kind of, like, came into your job. Sort of. I would say. Yes. Obviously. Yes. But did you do a lot of preparation before that, just to try to find employment or was it sort of like, you know, fly by the seat of your pants kind of thing? So I've definitely always been someone who is very career focused. I've always been someone who's like, I want to find a career and stuff. So I definitely did, especially during these times where I was like, Oh, I'm not 100% sure what I want to do. I found myself on websites like LinkedIn and like for e-sports. We have hit market jobs. I found myself going through those areas and applying for a few internships, applying for a few sort of random things, and working sort of proactively. And I think what you were saying earlier about potentially applying for things that you can sort of shoehorn your transferable skills into, even if you on 100% certain that that a is absolutely great is such a good idea because you never know what job is going to sort of pique that passion in you. If you're not a person who has a dead set job intention like you never know which job is going to pique that passion in you. So I, when I was considering places would apply for well when I was on my degree I would apply for anything that said graphic design, anything that said social media, anything that said tech talk, anything like that that I thought, you know, this is something I have a vague interest but a big passion into and sort of have the base skills to do it and just sort of gave it all ago. Similarly with teaching, I would think, okay, well, you know, I've trained to be an e-sports or a media teacher. However, I know from that that I can also teach. I can also teach sort of like PSAT and that kind of stuff. So I sort of always went for casting a wide net and LinkedIn is definitely something that helped me do that. So I'm really glad that there's been such a heavy discussion on LinkedIn and we definitely encourage particularly our final level students, but we try and encourage our students from the get go on the E-sports course to get using linked in. Because LinkedIn uses is used by so many incredible professionals in the e-sports field particular. And it's just such a good way to even if you're just finding voluntary positions that you see that, you know, people are calling for volunteers to help run this event. Well, maybe people have just said, I'm running a small grassroots event. Do you want to come along and play a couple of games at those events that you bump into people who say like, oh, you know, maybe you want to try this? And that's definitely such a fun, organic way to go about things. And it is just taking every opportunity that you can, even if you don't feel like the opportunity is sort of career centric, you'll probably find a career benefit from it. There's always something if it's a new situation for you, there's always something that you can take from it, and there's always something that it will expand sort of your personal skill set in some way. So yeah. I really I think there's a lot of opportunities that you if you're sort of on the lookout for them that you can take. Like we've, we've had a couple of like extra projects like which, you know, and especially when you're in a degree and someone's like, Oh, here's an optional project, you know, and you're kind of like, that's like more working, you know? But I, so I, there was two optional projects for this past semester and I did them both. And even with like the extra work and the extra stress that I've been under, like they were such amazing opportunities and like, you know, like one of them was about like architecture and bricks and, you know, designing a new brick, you know, for like and, you know, it was one of those things I never thought I didn't think I was going to be very excited about. But actually it was a really fun project and like now I have going to have work shown in the next like. BCB So it's kind of like, you know, it's it all rolled and like you meet so many new people who you can then make connections with. And so you know, like we're the other project, we're presenting an event at the Wedgwood collection. So it's kind of like, you know, things that you didn't think we're going to happen are now suddenly happening. And, you know, it's one of those things where if you don't take that opportunity, you know, you're not going to get you're not going to get that opportunity. And so it's and, you know, not saying that that will prevent you from getting a job later down the road. But, you know, it is one of those things where you kind of do have to kind of take every opportunity because you never know what something will turn into. And You know, you never know what door won't be open because you went to this random lecture that yeah, yeah. You know, I literally does. So I know that when I was a student comms ambassador, that used to be one of the questions that I got asked the most was like, Oh, what's your advice for someone that's at uni? And it's not changed at all since back then. And that is literally uni is what you make of it and take every opportunity that you can because you never know which one could potentially, you know, have a huge impact on your life. Yeah. Yeah. That was the approach I came to university with because everyone's always like, Oh, you're going to spend that much money on a piece of paper. And but like, actually, I came here so that I could be around professionals and text that know what to do and to get that access to the equipment and to open up a network and that. And then you've got the backing of a university. Then when you if you going to speak to somebody that's like high open, a different organization or something and you say, Oh, I'm a student and I'm looking to do X, Y or Z. The other different sorts of outlook on you, a different perspective where they think like, Oh, I can help student to do this. This is like, Oh, who's this guy who's just try and get X, Y, Z for me. And I think there's a lot of power that comes from being here and being a part of it. And it's not necessarily just about going through the process, coming in and going out so you can get a job. I think taking any opportunities that come across is like in 200%. I want pay to stay in that. And it basically it's that, you know, you're not paying for, you know, just the learning you pay for the experience that the communities do. So we are wrapping up this episode and we just want to thank you, Kai and Maxi. Thank you. Just rounding out with maybe a little nugget of advice for soon to be graduates listening and however you want. To say so, my advice would be, you know, if you have a you know, have a setback or not, but when you do go for a job, don't let it deter you from trying again. Take it as a learning opportunity. And, you know, take it and grow from it and, you know, just come back bigger and better next time. I guess my sort of central piece of advice would be if there's something that you are passionate about and that you have put a lot of effort into, never be afraid to sort of bring that up, particularly in job interviews, even if it's something that isn't necessarily the most relevant to the job that you're going for, just showing that you have that much passion and commitment to something and showing that you can, you know, articulate that to to people around you can be so beneficial. So never feel like you can't bring up something that you absolutely love. Being passionate is really important. Yeah. Definitely. Do you have any advice and advice to yourself as a soon to be graduate? I got loads of advice, but I never take it and I just suffer and struggle. But I am of the graduates willing to say I am try your best. Yeah. Definitely can't go wrong. You can't go wrong. You can't go. I would I would say that. Yeah, I would you know. Look, broaden your horizons. Don't you know, like put yourself in a box, you know, have know what your transferable skills are and you know, go with that. But yeah, we've had such a great discussion. It was so nice having you guys on the podcast. Thank you again, Holly and Maxi. Thank you, sir. Thank you, Alex. Thank you for having us. Yeah. And we just want to give a quick thank you as well to our technical services team for supporting the production. We would not sound this great without. Because. You can find more about our experiences, student experiences on YouTube. As to current student comms ambassadors, one x student I know, many former formers, former student, comms ambassador. And if you are a current student or prospective student for this coming fall, we have quite a few openings in our student comms ambassador team. So if you enjoy working your own hours, flexible hours and. Being introduced to opportunities you wouldn't have seen, yeah. Definitely hosting a podcast or just kind of creating content about it's about your student journey. So if that sounds interesting to you, go ahead and apply it with the unit champs website and we would love to have you on the team. So I think that's that's it. That's all the thank you's we've got. To find further support with anything we've been speaking about. You can visit staff to AC UK and do some navigation in there and find your way to our careers team. And don't forget to tell us what you think about the podcast so far on our social media websites, use the hashtag student connect podcast or tagging at static NI. Bye bye.